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Opposition will be bleak enough without descending into civil war

OppositionThe Paul Richards column

Like death, Labour going into opposition is one of those subjects people don’t like talking about. Some people think that not talking about it makes it less likely to happen. Others consider any public discussion of the possibility of Labour losing a future election to be an act of treachery and disloyalty, as I found when I spoke to Labour Students last Saturday in Leeds. The event was what used to be called the ‘NOLS Student Council’, and I wasn’t in any way freaked out by the fact that I was NOLS chair before most of the audience were born.  

I have no idea what will happen at the next election, lacking as I do the gift of prophecy. I can predict the range of possibilities: Labour will either win, or lose, or there will be some kind of coalition which either does, or doesn’t, have Labour in it. Ruling out military coups or popular uprisings, I think that covers it. I fervently hope the country will be spared Cameron and his gang, on the entirely sensible grounds that the worst possible Labour Government is preferable to the best possible Tory one. But like death, it is inevitable that Labour will one day leave office, and form Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition.

My considered view for the students in Leeds was that being in opposition is rubbish. In the first few months following a Labour defeat, Labour has always descended into rancour and blame. It happened in 1931, 1951, and in 1979, and it runs something like this: Labour lost the election for not being socialist enough, because the recently-ejected ministers lacked proper socialist conviction and resolve, and because the Government lost touch with the rank-and-file. Aside from the obvious contradiction contained within the contention that millions of people vote Tory when they think Labour is not left-wing enough, this post-defeat narrative is all about Labour’s culture of betrayal. It suits some (Compass springs to mind) to blame Labour’s leadership and centrist policies for failure, because it forces people to take up left positions.

This was the perspective put to me by one of the Labour students when he suggested that Labour lost votes and seats in 2005 because it was too ‘New’ Labour. That would mean that the voters of such Labour heartlands as St Albans, Enfield Southgate or Welwyn Hatfield voted Conservative because Labour offered too little red meat: a point I wish I’d made at the time rather than thought of days later. Ah well: l’esprit d’escalier.

It is not just the internecine warfare that makes opposition rubbish. It is also the impotence and irrelevance of it all. In the absence of government departments to run, Labour’s leaders’ energies are diverted to the internal workings of the Labour Party itself. Documents become a battleground. NEC papers assume great importance. It becomes a battle of endurance, with two-day, no-sleep shadow cabinet and NEC meetings to thrash out policy positions. The reason Militant took control of Labour’s youth wing, and could have taken over the NEC without Kinnock’s courage, wasn’t because of their politics; it was simply because they had nowhere else to be.  

Shadow Ministers, their speeches drafted by politics undergraduates on work-experience, will face Ministers with the full weight of the Government machine behind them. The Labour front-bench may look wistfully at the officials’ box under the press gallery, and see the familiar faces of civil servants who a few months previously were at their beck and call. Post-election, they won’t even acknowledge a friendly nod or wave. Journalists, once grateful for a ten-minute interview with a Labour minister in the back of a government car, won’t even return a shadow minister’s phone calls. There’s the old joke that you know when you’re no longer a minister when you get in the back of the car and it doesn’t go anywhere. You can imagine Labour’s shadow ministers working out how to use their new oyster cards with all the London street smarts of Japanese tourists.

I noticed the obituary this week of Bryan Stanley, the former general secretary of the POEU, the posties’ union. Stanley was the convenor of the St Ermins group of trade union leaders, formed in 1981, to keep the Labour Party's feet on the ground during the Bennite insurgency. He was far from being 'New Labour', but as a Labour mainstreamer who was prepared to stand up to the hard-left  on the NEC and the TUC council, and argue for passionate moderation, he made sure Labour did not disappear after 1983. He was typical of a generation of Labour stalwarts, who were dismissed as 'right-wing' yet who stayed in the party despite the defection of the SDP. One day, we will need people like Bryan Stanley, in the unions, in the CLPs, and on the NEC to make sure the party stays connected to the people who vote for us.

Labour losing an election one day is inevitable. We all hope the day isn’t 6th May 2010. But Labour descending into the kind of civil war we saw in the 1950s and 1980s is not inevitable; it can be avoided if we resist the easy temptations of faction-fighting and finger pointing, if the understated efforts of men like Bryan Stanley are successful. I heard a Tory say this week that Tories are always looking for someone to recruit, whilst socialists are always looking for someone to blame. It was the underlying truth of it that rankled the most.

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Hi Northern Monkey, hope you are well.

I think we should not tax the rich to death, but we do need to look at new ways to encourage the rich to contribute towards society that afterall, provides the money and environment that lets them get ruich in the first place.
Maybe the rich can offer a solution here, maybe there are things they would happily allocate funds to...I had a great conversation with some senior execs in an Italian Restraunt about taxation and they were very open minded, but I don't think the system we have is very direct or fair in it's methodology. I think extra-voluntary contributions that are directed at specific areas of policy might be an idea (for example commercial innovation and research...).

Love to know what you think ;)

Ralph Baldwin @ 54 weeks and 3 days ago
And how does punishing the rich help to prevent this?

Tax them into oblivion and they simply won't bother trying to earn higher wages. Then the tax revenue of the government will decrease dramatically. Which will end up with the poor worse off.

Just because a CEO earns a higher wage, it doesn't mean that someone at the bottom automatically earns any less.

I don't mind how high an individual's wages go, I only care about the incomes of those at the bottom.
Northern Monkey @ 54 weeks and 4 days ago
Precisely. And the knives will be out to either get them or stop others getting them. Watch and wait
chris jones @ 54 weeks and 4 days ago
Gabe

Thanks for the response, but activism is great if it is there to acheive something. Something useful. Unfortunately a lot of what seems to get deemed as activism on here is just whining about the Tories.

Time and time again on here I read the TORIES KILL PUPPIES line and that would be good, if there were not a pile of dead puppies already under the patio at Number 10.

A very quick example - article by Marie Birchall today about Cameron and jobs for the boys...whilst forgetting that women in the shadow cabinet out number them in the government. And Blair's Babes?

As for the "Shadow Ministers, their speeches drafted by politics undergraduates on work-experience, will face Ministers with the full weight of the Government machine behind them.", this to me implies (and you may argue differently) that you are planning to bully your way through. And that public money is being spent on Labour PR. That is how I percieve that line. This then makes me think of spin etc...

Like I said I may be wrong and you mean it differently but that's my perception and ultimately it's that perception on what I will vote for.
Gordon Brown-Nose @ 54 weeks and 4 days ago
I agree.
Ralph Baldwin @ 54 weeks and 4 days ago
Gordon Brown-Nose. No, I think something may have got lost in translation.

1) I'm keen on activism, rather than hand-wringing. Not sure how you interpreted whatever you've interpreted.
2) I mention speechwriters and journalists in reference to the line:
'Shadow Ministers, their speeches drafted by politics undergraduates on work-experience, will face Ministers with the full weight of the Government machine behind them.'
3) I didn't mention or implicitly refer to spin, or the benefits of spin, in my comment.
4) I didn't suggest improving attendance at think tank events would improve Labour's chances of winning the election. I said:
'I don't think that a Labour reconstruction, in opposition, should or would be based around the differing views of Westminster think tanks or pressure groups.'

Hope that's a bit clearer. Thanks for your comment though.
Gabe Trodd @ 54 weeks and 4 days ago
I dont think that will happen this time. An example has been sett by the Kinnock's, Balir and Mandelson. They will be looking for the next gravy train as fast as they can.
john smith @ 54 weeks and 4 days ago
Hmm not sue I agree Northern. Money is after all money and whether its tax or private, it is still the same stuff, and as we have seen the public sector like to think of themselves as private sector innovators and executives and pay "equivalent" wages. There has to be a point when any wage can become absurd.
Ralph Baldwin @ 54 weeks and 4 days ago
The article most emphatically does not call for unity, hence my post. It is a thinly-veiled attack on the party's left wing in the guise of a call for unity, and I think the motives of the author are quite transparent.

I am rather tired of the left being continually cast as trouble-makers-in-waiting. The message here is "let's all stick with the Blairite line, anybody who disagrees is from the loony left who would love nothing more than to condemn us to another eighteen years in opposition". It is petulant nonsense and further erodes the spirit of pluralism that was once a hallmark of this great party of ours.

And I do think there is such a thing as an "absurdly high wage". It is absolutely appalling that in a country of plenty, with excessive wages for bankers and executives there should simultaneously be those struggling to put food on the table (not to mention those who are homeless).
Ryan Thomas @ 54 weeks and 4 days ago
Good article with some sensible points.
Northern Monkey @ 54 weeks and 4 days ago
Here we go again...

The article calls for unity, but someone has to spoil it. If you blame New Labour for sending us into opposition, then surely you should credit New Labour for winning the party three successive full terms in office (two more than any previous Labour government ever managed)?

For the record, I don't believe there's any such thing as an "absurdly high wage" (providing it isn't taxpayers who are paying it), there's only a such thing as an "absurdly low wage".
Northern Monkey @ 54 weeks and 4 days ago
I don't want to diminish the work of think tanks/pressure groups in anyway, because I really like and admire a lot of the work that's being done,

Gabe this really does sum things up about certain elements of the party to me. How about someone actually DOING something instead of just talking about it?

You make a mention further down about expert speechwriters...if you think I am going to vote because of some great spin then you are heading for (I hope) a huge defeat come May 2010.

The reason I hope that is because I hope it actually opens your eyes and makes you see that we are fed up with spin. I want a plan and I want it followed. I want a team of people to get on with fixing the country, not a team of b****y speechwriters telling me how bad the Tories wil be!!

Glad to hear you are doing something by...erm...improving your attendance at events...shesh!!
Gordon Brown-Nose @ 54 weeks and 4 days ago
An excellent post Ralph and as a floating voter agree with the points you've raised.

I say floating although if the current leadership and team stays the same there will be 1 party I will not vote for. My trust has gone in them and no amount of articles by Gabe Trodd, Will Straw, Alex Ross etc saying how bad the Tories will be is going to change my mind.

The fact is that these people are not unbiased and I (and I suspect many others) can see straight through this. Tory bashing will get you nowhere very quickly.

If however, there was a major change at Labour HQ and many of the ideas put forward on here were carried out then who knows.

Possibly not popular on here (and only my opinion) but I'd also like to see groups like the Fabian Society and Compass sidelined a bit more.

To me, these left-wing "think tanks" come across as a "socialist elite" who don't live in the real world and are made up of ex uni students that have no idea about things outside of their political bubble.

Please feel free to tell me I am wrong as I am prepared to listen.
Gordon Brown-Nose @ 54 weeks and 4 days ago
Agreed Ryan, I am unhappy with some of the comments I have read here that those who have disagreed with the government historically have been labelled and treated as non-conformers. Reminds me of school.

Ralph Baldwin @ 54 weeks and 5 days ago
I think if Labour take the turning left approach they may be hit even harder at the 2015 GE.

Rightly or wrongly through my experience with people / news etc I associate "left wing" with the likes of Scargill, Robinson, Kinnock and Prescott.

These Champagne Socialists are all in favour of everyone being equal - except themselves.

After the mess the unions (and governments) made of the country during the 70's this is the vision of left-wing that I have. Couple that with political uni students (and apologies if I am generalising) that have never worked in their life but want to lecture me on how I should live mine and I would rather vote Monster Raving Looney.

If Labour lose in 2010 then they need to recover and recover quickly. They need to get to centre ground and they need to ditch all the old guard including the likes of Mandelson.

I agree with Louis that he is probably the most able in the government at the moment but he shouldn't even be there! He is a great political animal and I do have a grudging admiration for how he has bounced back each time, but ultimately I could not trust him with my children's future.

I want a party that will:

1 - tell me what it wants to achieve
2 - tell me how it's going to achieve it
3 - then gets on and does it

Unfortunately I can imagine Mandy being very good at 1 and 2 in order to get us to vote for him / Labour and then makes excuses and just ignores us. Trust and listening are huge issues to me.
Gordon Brown-Nose @ 54 weeks and 5 days ago
agree
Thomas Fairfax @ 54 weeks and 5 days ago
New Labour have had 12 years of big commons majorities to put in place a socialist UK. They flunked the opportunity and we are left with the worst economic conditions in living memory due to an incompetent market based, Tory-styled, economic policy.

You tend to get what you deserve in life (except if you're a banker) and New Labour deserve to be destroyed. One can only a hope that a real traditional Labour party will rise from the ashes.
Tom Sacold @ 54 weeks and 5 days ago
tick / agree
Nick Weeks @ 54 weeks and 5 days ago
You miss just one thing. Many of the Shadow Cabinet hate each other and are just waiting for the chance to destroy their main enemies - all of whom lie within the Party. And my, wont it be fun to watch.
chris jones @ 54 weeks and 5 days ago
Paul, I would enjoy your writings much more if they weren't so self-indulgent. Hardly an article goes by without reference to something you have achieved in your illustrious career (here it's your time as NOLS chair).

You say here that in the past the left has blamed Labour for losing elections: "for not being socialist enough, because the recently-ejected ministers lacked proper socialist conviction and resolve, and because the Government lost touch with the rank-and-file."

Are these criticisms not entirely fair this time around? We have moved so far to the right the party (at least, the party in Parliament) is darn near unrecognisable, and while we have much to be proud of since 1997 we also have a lot to be ashamed of. On far too many occasions we have put political expediency before our founding principles; Tom Harris's wretched defence of absurdly high wages is a good reminder of this.

Finally, in an article on the perils of faction-fighting, it would be more constructive if you would not use this forum as a bully pulpit for the left-bashing, Blairite views that, largely, are the ones that have got us in the mess of a likely spell in opposition in the first place.
Ryan Thomas @ 54 weeks and 5 days ago
I was fed up of being compared to a loony left trot ( which i'm most definately not) every time I had a different opinion to the Government, even when they later changed their mind ( e.g. on the top rate of income tax).

Its the only way they know - they treat the conservatives like that too, berate their policies as mad, and then a short time later adopt them...
tory 'killed for telling the uncomfortable truth' troll @ 54 weeks and 5 days ago
http://www.labourlist.org/not_about_left_right_blairites_brownites_together_alex_smith
Alex Smith @ 54 weeks and 5 days ago
At least someone dares to address the subject. Why might we lose? Well I might suggest that we have failed to look after our core voters who can see clearly that we are remiss and so stay at home rather than vote: that would be to ignore the elephant in the room.

The fact is that so long as GB is PM our destiny is sealed and losing will not be the biggest problem he will bring to our table. GB in defeat will not resign; he will find a reason why he cannot be replaced and we will be lumbered with him until someone finds the cojones to do something about it.

There is still time but not much. Leave it and we will be defeated and we will still have the problem of how to get rid of him
Jon Feltham @ 54 weeks and 5 days ago
I largely agree with you - I think that the Progress vs. Compass sniping is pathetic and I oppose any sort of factionalism in the Labour Party which is why I am not a member of either.

But in your opinion does Compass not contain that "loony left" element? Yes you have the obvious Compassites (no names mentioned) who will in all likelihood move towards centrist pragmatism as they gain office and move up the Labour ladder. But in my opinion many on the far left of the party see Compass as a palatable alternative to the LRC and a vehicle they can use to move the party significantly in that direction.
King Kong @ 54 weeks and 5 days ago
Hi Paul,

So your contribution to helping Labour avoid a factional civil war is to write an article slagging off everyone who is not in your faction as 'always looking for someone to blame', combined with some exceptionally weak analysis?

The main reason we lost lots of seats in 2005 in places like St Albans or Enfield Southgate is because Labour voters switched to non-voting or Lib Dems. It wasn't Compass (for all their faults) whose policies took us below 20% in the opinion polls, and getting fewer votes than UKIP (let alone the Tories) in the European Elections.

Instead of this kind of 1980s re-enactment society, where people write macho articles about how they will fight to save the Labour Party through ensuring that their faction gets its way on everything, I suggest a little more humility and reflections on what we've got wrong and need to do differently in the future, and some attempts to build alliances and identify the things that unite us across the Labour Party, not what divides us between Progress and Compass, lefties and moderates or whatever.
Don Paskini @ 54 weeks and 5 days ago
There's an awful lot in this article that's spot on. But one way to avoid Civil Wars is to stop sniping at different elements of the party. I'm a member of Compass that will be working my socks off for a Labour victory. And one of the reasons that I joined Compass was that I was fed up of being compared to a loony left trot ( which i'm most definately not) every time I had a different opinion to the Government, even when they later changed their mind ( e.g. on the top rate of income tax).
Daniel Elton @ 54 weeks and 5 days ago
He's not going mad.

He's just being assimilated by the hive mind.
Chris Cook @ 54 weeks and 5 days ago
"to ignore party Annual Conference"


Of course they do, the PLP has absolutely nothing to do with the Labour Party membership, or hadn't you noticed?
Charlie Farley @ 54 weeks and 5 days ago
Certainly in opposition there will be issues for former Ministers to address such as the decision of government to ignore party Annual Conference policy decisions such as the nationalisation of the railways event though this has public as well as party support.
David Brede @ 54 weeks and 5 days ago
Hi. Very interesting article. Paul, I really enjoy the way you write.

I just wanted to pick up on a point though. I think there's a danger that people might mistakenly read the subtext here as being some kind of prelude to a post-election, Progress V Compass dogfight. Although, there might be ‘factionalism’ if Labour were to be in opposition, I actually think this is overstating the case for the differing views of Westminster think tanks/pressure groups.
I don't think that a Labour reconstruction, in opposition, should or would be based around the differing views of Westminster think tanks or pressure groups. Clearly, people want, and will want, a participatory bottom-up, open movement in civic spaces, away from this common perception of a pernicious 'Westminster bubble', which could bring together trade unionists, the green movement, politically minded people that haven’t been able to engage with Labour in Government etc.

I don't want to diminish the work of think tanks/pressure groups in anyway, because I really like and admire a lot of the work that's being done, and the people that are doing the work - Labour’s great thinkers will clearly play a really important role in the future of the party, regardless of how the eventual election result goes. I really plan to vastly improve my attendance at events.

Secondly, I’d also challenge any sense or inkling of inevitability to Labour losing an election (like the Labour Students). There’s a long way to go yet. And also the vision that a Tory Government, inherently unequipped to deal with the British economy, climate change and the UK’s position in Europe would be surrounded by eager and enthusiastic journalists and expert speechwriters.
And thirdly, I’d challenge the view that socialists are always looking for someone to blame. The Obama/Hannan/NHS furore is just a recent illustration of the fact that people are always looking to blame socialists.
Gabe Trodd @ 54 weeks and 5 days ago
Paul, a very good article which features many of my concerns. However though I dislike using (but it is necessary to do so) the terms left, right and centre. The dilemma we face is that we have lost our positioning. We have straggles of aweful right wing policy, some centrist and sections of left. The worst thing is that we have a right wing group now though not a militancy they are ruthless and will certainly feature in the blame game that will come when we leave office (whenever that may be). The "loony left" (used by the right of the Labour Party - which does not help in acheiving anything whatsoever) and the Right of the Party (many of whom have serious questions to answer regarding expenses and outside interests) will be at each others throats. Historically many members try and avoid unpleasant conflicts.

Nobody wants conflict but the reality is that we are talking about the control of a political party where there are many ruthless and ambitious individuals who want that BIG job and the private money that is follow. We will need to fix the Party and repair the damage done both to it's reputation as a result of the corruption that has been allowed to occur without consequence, recommit ourselves to raising the integirtry of those who stand in public office for the party to undue the disrepute the party is in.

At the moment I believe that the public Labour voters are angry for these GENERAL POLITICAL (notwithstanding recession etc) reasons:

1) We have failed to be a Party that can show remorse or accountability.

2) Our MPs and some Councillors are overly arrogant on matters where they lack experience or qualification (the public see right through it).

3) It's not so much haw many fingers our MP's may have in a Pie, it's how many pies they have placed thier fingers and toes in to get rich.

4) Displayed no interest or compassion as to the aweful things that have happened to people during the recession, at least the Ministers etc are being honest and showing they don't give a xxxx.

5) Done very little to reassure the public about the future, Alistair Darling's apology over expenses simply borrows language and tone used by the bankers and damaged whatever confidence the public may have had in the man.

This all needs to be addressed but I think you will find that those incumbent MP's and those successors who share thier views will be very supportive of the positioning of the current Government in contradiction to the general public and core voters. Thus those desiring change for the better can only do so in challenging the status quo. I have yet to see this achieved by having a merry picnic, or a comfortable tea party.

There will be conflict, there will be blame, the important thing is that if there has to be the latter two items lets hope we arrive swiftly and solidly to a unified Party in a position to challenge the Conservatives by utilising our differences via measured and committed consensus and compromise.
Ralph Baldwin @ 54 weeks and 5 days ago
The problem with this analysis is that Labour voters did not switch to voting Tory, they switched to not voting at all. That's what accounted for the dreadful result in 2005 with the lowest turnout since the war.

Labour could lose in places like Bury South not because of a huge pro-Tory vote, but simply because working class voters stay home.

Paul Halsall @ 54 weeks and 5 days ago
Excellent article Paul.

Those of us who remain councillors in councils lost since 2005 (where in many cases national politics were a deciding factor) live the netherworld of opposition every day. The denial that went on in Westminster ranks, amongst minister and spads, was tangible. Now they work largely alone.

As I wrote on this blog after the last local election trashing: Labour would do well to engage the experience of those who lost, and/or are out of power before another set of rubbish campaign messages are launched.
Theo Blackwell @ 54 weeks and 5 days ago
Great analysis, both from the comments of you guys, and Paul above.

Having been active in the Labour Party in the 80s, when the factionalism was rife, this feels very different, less polarised, less concentrated around the memes of class warfare, state control and betrayal.

Let's hope so anyway.
Peter Jukes @ 54 weeks and 5 days ago
An excellent article Paul! You have articulated my views in a far more eloquent way than I could have.

Councillor James Alexander
Prospective Labour MP for York Outer
James Alexander @ 54 weeks and 5 days ago
" the worst possible Labour Government is preferable to the best possible Tory one".

I'd like to give you credit for not meaning that. Let's call it 'esprit du goulag'.
Laurence Hodge @ 54 weeks and 5 days ago
"the entirely sensible grounds that the worst possible Labour Government is preferable to the best possible Tory one"

Entirely?

Labour is the best party when it has the best policies. What I don't get is why Paul R seems to imply that wearing the right tie and having a better party name implies that this will happen.

Perhaps Paul also shares my view that trade union influence over the party is the only thing that guarantees it as a route to progress, and the only thing that makes its social base any different to either of the others, especially from a long-term point of view, a generation from now. I don't want to put words into Paul's mouth, but I doubt that he does share that view.

As for the rest of the article, it's very much a par de la course Blairite attack on the centre-left. Truly yawnworthy.

People have been repeating this stuff over and over again for ten years. We've all heard.

So I don't get what this really ads to the conversation.

Where is the vision on Paul's part? Where are the policies?

I respect Paul's political skills, but I have much distaste for his particular brand of Labour politics, I'm afraid.

Paul might dislike Compass's point of view, which is of course his perfect right, but at least they can lay down a bunch of things about the way the country is that actually cheeses them off and they would like to change.

And at least they have some ideas to chuck into the discussion to solve those problems, whether you happen to agree with them or not.

What does Paul think is wrong with Britain? How would Paul like to see British society? What are the wrongs and what are his perscriptions for writing them?

All very fair to have articles warning Labour not to attack itself, but ironically the article is itself a factional attack, bereft of the policy solutions which can be the only sensible answer to Labour's predicament, opposition or not.

It is artillery naval gazing without any route from the depths of said naval. Let's think outside the bellybutton, eh?
Tom Miller @ 54 weeks and 5 days ago
The problem is that Labour are very low on talent

The 'on talent' bit might be redundant but I agree with the sentiment which is why I question the wisdom of those Labour people who would like to see Mandleson pack up his bucket and spade and emigrate to Brazil when he is probably the most able person in government.

If Labour end up drifting way way leftwards that'll mean an opportunity for the Lib Dems imo. 2010 could be a set back for them but 2014/5 may be very good if Labour drift into navel gazing mode.
Louis Mazzini @ 54 weeks and 5 days ago
Yes, the most important thing now is an effective opposition, if we had had that for the last 10 years we may not be in the mess we are (and, YAY, we can blame the tories for that). The problem is that Labour are very low on talent, even Alan Johnson, Labour's last hope, is going slowly mad as Home Sec like all the others before him.
Charlie Farley @ 54 weeks and 5 days ago
Great article Paul but I think it's only far to say that post defeat myopia about the causes isn't just confined to the Labour Party. The Tories managed it after 97 and the Republican party seem to be making the same mistake at the moment. Obvious really, if your country has just elected a liberal president then you should turn to Rush Limbaugh as your saviour.

One thing to bear in mind is that - and this is readily acknowledged by the Tories - the next government after the election will quickly become exceptionally unpopular as I believe Thatcher's was in 1982 before the Argies helped them out. Question is whether Labour will be able to get it's act together to provide an effective opposition in time or not?
Louis Mazzini @ 54 weeks and 5 days ago
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